hsbc crossed off $1.5 billion. does it go to any victims of this crime? there are no victims of the crime. does it pay restitution? nobody was harmed, so no restitution to be paid. here is what the government said the bank did. here's what the bank admitted to doing. engaged in money laundering outside the united states. so how does the justice department prosecute criminal activity that occurs outside the united states? if someone engages -- ashley: was a facilitated by somebody in the united states? >> of course that s the argument. but to say these people were tutored outside the united states and how to avoid disobeying the law, that is what lawyers do. they twitter clients into how to avoid disobeying the law. here is your product, here is your goal. the lawyer will tell you how to do it lawfully. if it means to business as to not to violate, everyday. if it means to trick the government, the lawyer is participating in a conspiracy. ashley: finding a way around the system. >> again, we are arguing in a vacuum because the case is always settle. not a